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	<title>Comments on: You Should Build Websites That Empower Site Owners</title>
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	<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/</link>
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		<title>By: Jan-Willem Bobbink</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-127789</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan-Willem Bobbink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 17:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-127789</guid>
		<description>What do you think of the extra costs of developing a custom made CMS against the low costs of using an open source solutions like for example WordPress?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you think of the extra costs of developing a custom made CMS against the low costs of using an open source solutions like for example WordPress?</p>
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		<title>By: kailash</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-115544</link>
		<dc:creator>kailash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Aug 2011 19:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-115544</guid>
		<description>In theory, this is a very sound idea, since I don&#039;t particularly enjoy web maintenance. In practice, it never works out.

There are so many times I built a site using a cms because the client wanted to make updates themselves. I even spent a lot of time sitting with various personnel on the client&#039;s side, teaching them all the various functions and features of the cms, and what they could do. However, I always ended up either cleaning their mess or doing all the maintenance myself anyway.

Nowadays, I use a cms only to make things easier for myself, and don&#039;t offer access to the clients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In theory, this is a very sound idea, since I don&#8217;t particularly enjoy web maintenance. In practice, it never works out.</p>
<p>There are so many times I built a site using a cms because the client wanted to make updates themselves. I even spent a lot of time sitting with various personnel on the client&#8217;s side, teaching them all the various functions and features of the cms, and what they could do. However, I always ended up either cleaning their mess or doing all the maintenance myself anyway.</p>
<p>Nowadays, I use a cms only to make things easier for myself, and don&#8217;t offer access to the clients.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Louis</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-115234</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Louis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2011 09:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-115234</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with the conclusion of Jason in the article. The website should be customizable basing on the client&#039;s need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with the conclusion of Jason in the article. The website should be customizable basing on the client&#8217;s need.</p>
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		<title>By: Chief Alchemist</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-115113</link>
		<dc:creator>Chief Alchemist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 19:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-115113</guid>
		<description>1) Actually, not all clients want to be empowered. Some have experience with HTML, FTP and such and are quite comfortable with that model. In 2001 the idea is foreign to me but these people do exist. Any time I&#039;ve witnessed an attempt to convert such people it has been a waste their time and stress for everyone else who was on the project. 

2) With empowerment comes responsibility. For example, updating content, properly naming image files, thinking about SEO and keywords, etc. These all matter now. A state of the art site today - note: I&#039;m not talking bleeding edge, just standard best practices - is quite a ways from a lot of clients&#039; last static HTML website. Some want to move past their current ball &amp; chain and are all ears. While others have high expectations about results but haven&#039;t quite caught on to the fact that the &quot;just a website&quot; days are long gone. The level of the game is higher. Excelling takes time and attention to detail. But not everyone is up for that challenge in spite of what they say about the results they seek. 

2) Access roles should be assigned based strictly on need. For example, the primary client (e.g., owner) should be given two sets of credentials. One that&#039;s for Admin things and one as Editor (if we&#039;re sticking with WP). Only when there&#039;s a need for Admin powers should that risk/responsibility be exercised. Day to day editing type things are for the Editor persona. 

3) Finally, @Andy Griffin (comment previous to mine), I&#039;d like to suggest you check out ExpressionEngine. In short, EE is the best of both worlds. I love WP for a lot of things. But the fact is when it comes to fully customizable work, EE is years ahead of WP. And there&#039;s just no way anyone can do up a proper CMS for $300 what EE does out of box for that price. The real games begin from there :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Actually, not all clients want to be empowered. Some have experience with HTML, FTP and such and are quite comfortable with that model. In 2001 the idea is foreign to me but these people do exist. Any time I&#8217;ve witnessed an attempt to convert such people it has been a waste their time and stress for everyone else who was on the project. </p>
<p>2) With empowerment comes responsibility. For example, updating content, properly naming image files, thinking about SEO and keywords, etc. These all matter now. A state of the art site today &#8211; note: I&#8217;m not talking bleeding edge, just standard best practices &#8211; is quite a ways from a lot of clients&#8217; last static HTML website. Some want to move past their current ball &amp; chain and are all ears. While others have high expectations about results but haven&#8217;t quite caught on to the fact that the &#8220;just a website&#8221; days are long gone. The level of the game is higher. Excelling takes time and attention to detail. But not everyone is up for that challenge in spite of what they say about the results they seek. </p>
<p>2) Access roles should be assigned based strictly on need. For example, the primary client (e.g., owner) should be given two sets of credentials. One that&#8217;s for Admin things and one as Editor (if we&#8217;re sticking with WP). Only when there&#8217;s a need for Admin powers should that risk/responsibility be exercised. Day to day editing type things are for the Editor persona. </p>
<p>3) Finally, @Andy Griffin (comment previous to mine), I&#8217;d like to suggest you check out ExpressionEngine. In short, EE is the best of both worlds. I love WP for a lot of things. But the fact is when it comes to fully customizable work, EE is years ahead of WP. And there&#8217;s just no way anyone can do up a proper CMS for $300 what EE does out of box for that price. The real games begin from there :)</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-115052</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-115052</guid>
		<description>I have been building websites for many years and I have never used a CMS that fully impowers the sites owners, if this could be achieved it would be fantastic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been building websites for many years and I have never used a CMS that fully impowers the sites owners, if this could be achieved it would be fantastic.</p>
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		<title>By: ff-webdesigner</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-115013</link>
		<dc:creator>ff-webdesigner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-115013</guid>
		<description>Just completely my opinion! I used to be absolutely anti-cms until about 4 years ago. the were complicated, bad for seo, hard to install and maintain. but nowadays, we got wordpress, and it&#039;s a webdesigner&#039;s dream helping people to manage their own content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just completely my opinion! I used to be absolutely anti-cms until about 4 years ago. the were complicated, bad for seo, hard to install and maintain. but nowadays, we got wordpress, and it&#8217;s a webdesigner&#8217;s dream helping people to manage their own content.</p>
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		<title>By: jason mark</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-114792</link>
		<dc:creator>jason mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 20:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-114792</guid>
		<description>Good points.  I agree that these rules apply to small mom-and-pop type organizations where budget is a HUGE concern.

I think less of it applies to larger and/or well funded organizations.  For instance any organization that hires a design firm to do their design work probably shouldn&#039;t be tweaking the color of their text.  I mean if they were trained and qualified to do that, would they have hired a design firm in the first place?

Minor tweaks might be OK, but many of our clients come to us asking specifically for stronger brand cohesion, and letting *some* of their editors change font colors would be inappropriate.

Some clients specifically request that some editors not have image upload permission for the same reason.  While anyone *can* crop an image, you have to have some training and experience to be able to crop an image to tell the story you want to tell.

In terms of content, I agree  that in the *ideal* world clients should edit their own words on the page, but the reality is if the person doing the editing doesn&#039;t have a smart-phone they probably don&#039;t fully &quot;get&quot; how people use the internet, and therefore really *aren&#039;t* the ideal people to write the content.

If their choice is between having their jack of all trades programmer edit the copy or do it themselves, obviously they should be doing it themselves, but clients often need help with content.

As web experts part of our job should be assessing what a client can do GREAT and giving them tools to do what they do best, and then providing them with help (not just tools) for the things that they&#039;re not as strong at....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points.  I agree that these rules apply to small mom-and-pop type organizations where budget is a HUGE concern.</p>
<p>I think less of it applies to larger and/or well funded organizations.  For instance any organization that hires a design firm to do their design work probably shouldn&#8217;t be tweaking the color of their text.  I mean if they were trained and qualified to do that, would they have hired a design firm in the first place?</p>
<p>Minor tweaks might be OK, but many of our clients come to us asking specifically for stronger brand cohesion, and letting *some* of their editors change font colors would be inappropriate.</p>
<p>Some clients specifically request that some editors not have image upload permission for the same reason.  While anyone *can* crop an image, you have to have some training and experience to be able to crop an image to tell the story you want to tell.</p>
<p>In terms of content, I agree  that in the *ideal* world clients should edit their own words on the page, but the reality is if the person doing the editing doesn&#8217;t have a smart-phone they probably don&#8217;t fully &#8220;get&#8221; how people use the internet, and therefore really *aren&#8217;t* the ideal people to write the content.</p>
<p>If their choice is between having their jack of all trades programmer edit the copy or do it themselves, obviously they should be doing it themselves, but clients often need help with content.</p>
<p>As web experts part of our job should be assessing what a client can do GREAT and giving them tools to do what they do best, and then providing them with help (not just tools) for the things that they&#8217;re not as strong at&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-114774</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 19:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-114774</guid>
		<description>A big YES in agreement on access control! Every site owner needs to know how serious a risk it is to give excessive access to lower users. Sometimes owners are tempted to pass out their own password so that others can make changes to the website -- when in fact a lower level account should be created for the purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A big YES in agreement on access control! Every site owner needs to know how serious a risk it is to give excessive access to lower users. Sometimes owners are tempted to pass out their own password so that others can make changes to the website &#8212; when in fact a lower level account should be created for the purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: TomD</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-114682</link>
		<dc:creator>TomD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 12:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-114682</guid>
		<description>We have been trying to do this for a couple of years but keep running into the same problem - rich text editors require the client to learn new ideas (something often resisted). A good example of the problem is your very first image in the article. In the text editor you show a headline (maybe it is a subhead), body copy, a photo that sized and placed, and an HTML table that is floated to the right. We can setup the image processing and uploading in our CMS of choice (Drupal) and some of our clients can handle assigning H2, H3 and so on - but not a single one can figure out how to make a table in an HTML editor without a lot of training.
Most of my clients would prefer to work their copy in Word and then drop it into the CMS (which is a recipe for disaster) and most don&#039;t even know how to make a table in Word.
This does not mean that we should not build sites using CMS&#039;s - it just means that we have to set the right expectations up front. Our best successes are around highly structured and frequently changing content - general pages of text and images are usually the hardest for clients to work on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have been trying to do this for a couple of years but keep running into the same problem &#8211; rich text editors require the client to learn new ideas (something often resisted). A good example of the problem is your very first image in the article. In the text editor you show a headline (maybe it is a subhead), body copy, a photo that sized and placed, and an HTML table that is floated to the right. We can setup the image processing and uploading in our CMS of choice (Drupal) and some of our clients can handle assigning H2, H3 and so on &#8211; but not a single one can figure out how to make a table in an HTML editor without a lot of training.<br />
Most of my clients would prefer to work their copy in Word and then drop it into the CMS (which is a recipe for disaster) and most don&#8217;t even know how to make a table in Word.<br />
This does not mean that we should not build sites using CMS&#8217;s &#8211; it just means that we have to set the right expectations up front. Our best successes are around highly structured and frequently changing content &#8211; general pages of text and images are usually the hardest for clients to work on.</p>
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		<title>By: Gustaf Eriksson</title>
		<link>http://sixrevisions.com/web-development/you-should-build-websites-that-empower-site-owners/#comment-114623</link>
		<dc:creator>Gustaf Eriksson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixrevisions.com/?p=5796#comment-114623</guid>
		<description>At my company we always provide our clients with a CMS. (Joomla most of the time). My experience is that in the end, the client is happier paying us by the hour to do the updates. Even though it is quite simple for them to make changes themselves. 
The average small business client just don&#039;t have the time, skill or the interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At my company we always provide our clients with a CMS. (Joomla most of the time). My experience is that in the end, the client is happier paying us by the hour to do the updates. Even though it is quite simple for them to make changes themselves.<br />
The average small business client just don&#8217;t have the time, skill or the interest.</p>
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